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Post by racefanmike on Jul 6, 2007 20:00:28 GMT -5
four things
1) keeping Lorain from getting casino gambling in 1989. (race tracks threw big money against).
2) Spending too much trying to get slots in racetracks, in 2007
(after spending too much keeping them out of Lorain in 1989.)
3) lack of vision. No new harness fans. No promotions to bring
in new or future business, and or fans.
4) the smoking ban.
rebuttle
1) If racetracks are going to spende BIG MONEY to keep casino's
out of Lorain, which would benefits 200,000 people. Why should
race tracks have casino's to benefit Broc Milsteine and whoever works for him?
2) Please have a plan B, especially if plan A is soooo weak.
3) Unless I were involved in Harness racing, my kids would never know it existed! Therefor 99.9% of all kids don't know harness racing exists. That means, about 15 years from now, only people who are involved in harness racing and thier kids will know that it exists!
People without vision or guts lose!!!!!!
Bianconi should have taken another job if he were offered one,
as long as it was out of state! (rumor is he was, therefor the promotion)
Same for Gisser.
Face it!!!! there is not ONE 18 year old in Cleveland who has ever heard of Baron Hanover, or Bret Hanover, or GreyHound.
Let alone Missouri Time, Ozark Freddie, Ludwig, Lakewater Glory.
Mac Lobell, Nihilator, Fake Left etc.....
There is absolutely no reason for anyon e 20 or younger to go to Northfield, hell theres not so much as a vidio game there.
Not even a micr-brew.
There is nothing going on at Northfield, except $2,000 nw 1000
last 5 starts.
Send me a betting voucher, and I'll find someone going, to cash it and make the $2.00 bet for me, because I'm 45.
Now if I'm 20 and you tell me I get free parking, free admission,
a free beer and hot dog, plus.... a betting voucher worth between
$2.00 and $5,000. 15% of the 20 year old may come.
If I'm 18 or younger, and you say come for a barn tour, and learn about the horses, plus....
Meet some trainers, drivers and grooms, my kids are intertested.
Racetracks killed canino gambling in Ohio 1989 and probably forever.
Promote the fact that it's Ohio's no.2 agricultural business. Promote the fact that it employes so many people outside the race track business.
Promote the fact that harness racing sets records EVERY YEAR. While Secretariate still holds the record from 1973.
Get on the ball, inovate, overcome and prosper.
enough said?
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Post by BlackWater on Jul 8, 2007 0:05:04 GMT -5
That packs a whallop, Mike. I'm interested to see where this goes.
BW
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Post by moondog33 on Jul 9, 2007 12:51:35 GMT -5
Nothing will happand as management dosen't uderstand the power of the internet now. Their is no reason other then to socialize with your friends as you can bet all tracks online and get many perks: Free Admission Free parking Free seats Rebates Free programs for some tracks Cheap Food and Beer I tried to advise management to at least have a happy hour daily at their sports bar but I guess they don't need the extra business between 3:00-&7:00pm. Other ideas include: Bring back the Sunday Handicapping contest Have a diffrent promotion everyday DO WHATEVER IT TAKES TO GET PATRONS TO COME TO THE TRACK!! If not their will be no NO northfield park to go to. Just my take. Lets here from everybody!  Don't have to pay for gas to track |
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Post by 150flat on Jul 9, 2007 18:14:41 GMT -5
Unless Northfield Management feels like explaining their short/long term business plans with us, I find it difficult to comment on how to "make it better".
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Post by BlackWater on Jul 9, 2007 18:41:30 GMT -5
Unless Northfield Management feels like explaining their short/long term business plans with us, I find it difficult to comment on how to "make it better". Well said, sir........... Perhaps these issues are being discussed by the board of directors, and that discussion is currently none of our business. I hope the Giss will fill us in when there is news to share! BW |
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Post by moondog33 on Jul 10, 2007 13:56:35 GMT -5
Who owns this board anyway??? Seems like a HOMER Foreum All The Way. People should be able to say almost anything without censorship!!! |
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Post by trackrat on Jul 10, 2007 14:46:04 GMT -5
Who owns this board anyway??? Seems like a HOMER Foreum All The Way. People should be able to say almost anything without censorship!!! Moondog, you are free to leave anytime you want. If you are unhappy with the vanilla that we serve here, go to Horseplop, where they serve all flavors. Seriously, we're here to have fun discussing handicapping issues and hopefully, learning a little bit too. You are more than welcome to join us in these discussions. |
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Post by jay44224 on Jul 10, 2007 14:54:11 GMT -5
Who owns this board anyway??? Seems like a HOMER Foreum All The Way. People should be able to say almost anything without censorship!!! One could say there is a time and place for everything. This is definately not the place. I myself like Homerville. |
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Post by thegiss on Jul 10, 2007 15:19:39 GMT -5
No time for a long dissertation here-- I will post one later this week when I have time. But a few points.
We do not have a Board of Directors...we are a privatel held company. Most decisions rest either with COO Tom Aldrich or CEO Brock Milstein. They put a great deal of faith and trust in their managers and department heads to operate efficiently.
We have made some business decisions, that, in hindsight, were poor. They are most likely not the ones you think they are, but I will not get involved in a pissing contest with my bosses and fellow department heads. We discuss plans and ideas, sometimes heatedly, nearly always respectfully, and develop business decisions accordingly.
Reports of ou rdeat are greatly exagerated. Is it the same place it was in the 70s? Heck no. I personally believe that the simulcast business model developed by the big boys like Churchill is what killed live product and opened up the door to he internet sites that moondog refers to. Many racetrack managers are not very good businessmen. Whether you accept it or not, the ones here are.
I will try to post some general detail later--good discussion, I hope you guys keep it going.
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Post by sulkyhaven on Jul 10, 2007 17:17:20 GMT -5
Be glad you have harness racing in Ohio and at Northfield. I live in Baltimore, a radius of 50 miles contains several top-noched standardbred breeders...and we have one lousy harness track (which is crap).
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Post by moondog33 on Jul 10, 2007 19:26:00 GMT -5
Thanks for the response Giss. That is what I'm looking for here. A discussion on topics/both pro and con. Not a one sided view on issues. So if you are looking for me to just sit back and not respond to post etc with my take on things I will gladly leave this site . If you noticed this post has had 130 plus hits. Most people like a lively discussion on issues, otherwise things will be real boring around here wit no interaction from the members.  I hope my contributions are liked and wanted if not I will leave. Till next time  |
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Post by jimhorseman on Jul 10, 2007 21:17:51 GMT -5
I really can't comment on the Northfield situation as I am only able to get there a couple of weekends a year. I can comment on harness racing in general as I live between two race tracks (Buffalo Raceway and Batavia Downs) which were on the verge of shutdown several years ago until slot machines were added.
Slot machines seem to me as both the savior and demise of harness racing all rolled in one package. Here in the Buffalo area the purses for the horsemen have increased threefold since the slot revenues have come in. This has allowed horsemen to finally make a decent living and has encouraged new ownership to enter. That of course is the good.
The bad is that the local tracks now make all of their profits from the slot machines. In fact the horseracing end of the business is seen as a necessary loss leader. Since the slots were added on track handle is significantly down. Betting pools are all but laughable for some races. Big betters cannot wager the local tracks because a $50 win wager can literally slice the odds in half. The reason for the decline is of course the slot machines.
Our local race tracks cater almost exclusively to drawing in slot players. At Buffalo Raceway for example the entire downstairs area is devoted to slot machines. The whole slot area can be walked and not one mention of the harness racing just outside can be found. Actually there is no way to get outside from the slot machine area to watch the races. The upstairs clubhouse has been split with about 2/3 of the area having a dining room and bar (no TV's, race tellers or race information). The horse fan has been jammed into the remaining 1/3 of the upstairs area where there are 3-5 tellers working, a dozen self serve machines and a window that sells programs. Pathetic. If a person wants to watch the races outside on the rail he/she has to bolt up two flights of stairs in the empty grandstand, work their way through a walkway and into the clubhouse to wager then reverse course to again watch outside.
In my mid-40's , I am one of the youngest people watching and wagering on the races. Nothing is done to attract a younger crowd. I tried to interest my 24 year old nephew a few weeks ago but after being confused when trying to read the program lines, having a poor view of the races, waiting twenty minutes between races and then getting shut out as everyone descends on the three tellers right at post time he said the heck with it and went downstairs to play the slots. The slots require no thinking, offer all kinds of exciting bells & whistles, provide instant results and the lure of a potential big hit. Very few young people want to take the time to learn how to read and then analyze a race program. The lack of a next generation will probably lead to the demise of bettable harness racing.
I think my local tracks and all tracks in general should try some programs to attract a younger crowd. Offer handicapping seminars teaching a person how to read and analyze a program.
Have a meet the drivers promotion where a face can be associated with a name. Set something up where younger children can get a ride in a harness sulky. I was lucky enough to have a friend's Dad own harness horses when I was young. To this day I remember the thrill of sitting in a sulky with Phil Laspino as I took a lap around the track with a horse named Double Cherry. It helped make me a fan for life.
Harness tracks need to do more to get in the public eye. Have a publicity director flood the local newspapers with stories about the track. People like big payoffs so in addition to having a carryforward Pick Four do the same with Superfectas. If there are no winning tickets carry forward a majority of the pool to the same race the next racing night. With an average Superfecta pool at Northfield in the $15K range it may mean a $10K or more carry forward which should then be promoted like crazy. The public likes freebies. Have a promotion where a losing ticket can be exchanged for a hot dog, popcorn or a small soda pop. I'm not sure how feasable financially it would be for Northfield to ditch the parking & admission charges totally but at least put together a mailing list to frequent betters so they can at least attend for free.
Think outside the box. Crazy promotions sometimes can garner all kinds of news coverage. The 20-30 adult male is interested in drinking and the 20-30 adult female. How about an event where females get free drinks all night - that would attract the guys. Maybe a bachelor auction with local celebrities, one after each race. How about bringing in the Cleveland Brown cheerleaders to sign autographs and meet patrons. Maybe they would only autograph losing tickets.
I'm sure others have better ideas. I'll stop the rambling, after all I still need to handicap the last few races on tomorrow's card.
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Post by caveman on Jul 10, 2007 22:02:54 GMT -5
Very well put jim and i agree, there must be change and soon. I just don't understand why Northfield and other tracks are so stupid that they can't see this. |
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Post by the believer on Jul 10, 2007 22:12:25 GMT -5
Who owns this board anyway??? Seems like a HOMER Foreum All The Way. People should be able to say almost anything without censorship!!! Moondog , this a foreign owned board , a darn Canuck named the believer owns Homerville. |
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Post by the believer on Jul 10, 2007 22:32:53 GMT -5
I really can't comment on the Northfield situation as I am only able to get there a couple of weekends a year. I can comment on harness racing in general as I live between two race tracks (Buffalo Raceway and Batavia Downs) which were on the verge of shutdown several years ago until slot machines were added. Slot machines seem to me as both the savior and demise of harness racing all rolled in one package. Here in the Buffalo area the purses for the horsemen have increased threefold since the slot revenues have come in. This has allowed horsemen to finally make a decent living and has encouraged new ownership to enter. That of course is the good. The bad is that the local tracks now make all of their profits from the slot machines. In fact the horseracing end of the business is seen as a necessary loss leader. Since the slots were added on track handle is significantly down. Betting pools are all but laughable for some races. Big betters cannot wager the local tracks because a $50 win wager can literally slice the odds in half. The reason for the decline is of course the slot machines. Our local race tracks cater almost exclusively to drawing in slot players. At Buffalo Raceway for example the entire downstairs area is devoted to slot machines. The whole slot area can be walked and not one mention of the harness racing just outside can be found. Actually there is no way to get outside from the slot machine area to watch the races. The upstairs clubhouse has been split with about 2/3 of the area having a dining room and bar (no TV's, race tellers or race information). The horse fan has been jammed into the remaining 1/3 of the upstairs area where there are 3-5 tellers working, a dozen self serve machines and a window that sells programs. Pathetic. If a person wants to watch the races outside on the rail he/she has to bolt up two flights of stairs in the empty grandstand, work their way through a walkway and into the clubhouse to wager then reverse course to again watch outside. In my mid-40's , I am one of the youngest people watching and wagering on the races. Nothing is done to attract a younger crowd. I tried to interest my 24 year old nephew a few weeks ago but after being confused when trying to read the program lines, having a poor view of the races, waiting twenty minutes between races and then getting shut out as everyone descends on the three tellers right at post time he said the heck with it and went downstairs to play the slots. The slots require no thinking, offer all kinds of exciting bells & whistles, provide instant results and the lure of a potential big hit. Very few young people want to take the time to learn how to read and then analyze a race program. The lack of a next generation will probably lead to the demise of bettable harness racing. I think my local tracks and all tracks in general should try some programs to attract a younger crowd. Offer handicapping seminars teaching a person how to read and analyze a program. Have a meet the drivers promotion where a face can be associated with a name. Set something up where younger children can get a ride in a harness sulky. I was lucky enough to have a friend's Dad own harness horses when I was young. To this day I remember the thrill of sitting in a sulky with Phil Laspino as I took a lap around the track with a horse named Double Cherry. It helped make me a fan for life. Harness tracks need to do more to get in the public eye. Have a publicity director flood the local newspapers with stories about the track. People like big payoffs so in addition to having a carryforward Pick Four do the same with Superfectas. If there are no winning tickets carry forward a majority of the pool to the same race the next racing night. With an average Superfecta pool at Northfield in the $15K range it may mean a $10K or more carry forward which should then be promoted like crazy. The public likes freebies. Have a promotion where a losing ticket can be exchanged for a hot dog, popcorn or a small soda pop. I'm not sure how feasable financially it would be for Northfield to ditch the parking & admission charges totally but at least put together a mailing list to frequent betters so they can at least attend for free. Think outside the box. Crazy promotions sometimes can garner all kinds of news coverage. The 20-30 adult male is interested in drinking and the 20-30 adult female. How about an event where females get free drinks all night - that would attract the guys. Maybe a bachelor auction with local celebrities, one after each race. How about bringing in the Cleveland Brown cheerleaders to sign autographs and meet patrons. Maybe they would only autograph losing tickets. I'm sure others have better ideas. I'll stop the rambling, after all I still need to handicap the last few races on tomorrow's card. Jim , harness racing is in the same predicament in Ontario , the only difference may be that without harness racing there can be no slots other than at NIAGARA , RAMA ,Windsor.full flegged Casino's. Grandstands are empty ,6 OR 7 tellers compared too long lineups of the 80's, the smaller tracks tend to do better as they still promote the sport as trots , slots and jackpots , they are also the only game in town ( most are located on the outskirts of smaller cities throughout the province ) , A GREAT HORSE or Horse Race will still bring out the people if the word is spread via the media -newspaper stories , local news. |
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I hope my contributions are liked and wanted if not I will leave. Till next time 
