|
Post by jimhorseman on Aug 13, 2007 19:02:56 GMT -5
Keith:
My home tracks are the Buffalo Raceway/Batavia Downs circuit. The racing moved a few weeks ago to Batavia Downs for the remainder of the year. Batavia introduced a ten cent superfecta option in their third and final race of each evening. Speaking with some Batavia folks this past weekend they claim the superfecta pool has tripled with the introduction of this wager.
I know the ten cent super is becoming more popular at tracks around the country. Is this something Northfield has considered to help their handle? I would think a majority of the simulcast tracks would allow the wager. By the way, I personally dislike the ten cent super option. It's too easy (inexpensive) for betters to cover all possible combinations. I don't mind investing a large sum and hitting the all button for fourth and sometimes third & fourth if I think that option will provide a proper payoff for the investment. If lower price supers come to the table I prefer the Canadian wager of twenty cent supers which makes it a bit more difficult/expensive to cover all the combinations.
Second question/observation. I am making a West Coast trip the last week in August and will spend Friday the 31st at a California track. I've been looking at their simulcast schedule to see if Northfield was an option. Last friday (Aug 3rd) only the 7th race was available. This past friday (Aug 10th) races 6,7 and 8 were available to California simulcast facilities. Whose decision is that? While wagering Northfield this past friday the 10th I knew that races 6-8 only were going to be available out west. I did notice that Northfield seemed to allow more wagering time before those races and that the handle was significantly higher for those races.
The out of state simulcast options at California tracks are horrible with a small portion of a few cards only available. I'm guessing they are trying to protect the in state tracks but it seems a lose/lose situation. I'm sure Northfield would prefer the West Coast having availability to all their races. I have a friend who lives in Los Angeles and wagers major dollars. He opened up an on-line account and now bets primarily from home due to the poor simulcast choices. Last year he told me (and I absolutely believe him) that his yearly wagers totalled over a quarter million dollars. I would think the California tracks would want him and others like him at their facility rather than betting at home. Any chance Northfield can do something to better tap the lucrative California market?
|
|
|
Post by thegiss on Aug 14, 2007 10:29:03 GMT -5
Keith: My home tracks are the Buffalo Raceway/Batavia Downs circuit. The racing moved a few weeks ago to Batavia Downs for the remainder of the year. Batavia introduced a ten cent superfecta option in their third and final race of each evening. Speaking with some Batavia folks this past weekend they claim the superfecta pool has tripled with the introduction of this wager. I know the ten cent super is becoming more popular at tracks around the country. Is this something Northfield has considered to help their handle? I would think a majority of the simulcast tracks would allow the wager. By the way, I personally dislike the ten cent super option. It's too easy (inexpensive) for betters to cover all possible combinations. I don't mind investing a large sum and hitting the all button for fourth and sometimes third & fourth if I think that option will provide a proper payoff for the investment. If lower price supers come to the table I prefer the Canadian wager of twenty cent supers which makes it a bit more difficult/expensive to cover all the combinations. Second question/observation. I am making a West Coast trip the last week in August and will spend Friday the 31st at a California track. I've been looking at their simulcast schedule to see if Northfield was an option. Last friday (Aug 3rd) only the 7th race was available. This past friday (Aug 10th) races 6,7 and 8 were available to California simulcast facilities. Whose decision is that? While wagering Northfield this past friday the 10th I knew that races 6-8 only were going to be available out west. I did notice that Northfield seemed to allow more wagering time before those races and that the handle was significantly higher for those races. The out of state simulcast options at California tracks are horrible with a small portion of a few cards only available. I'm guessing they are trying to protect the in state tracks but it seems a lose/lose situation. I'm sure Northfield would prefer the West Coast having availability to all their races. I have a friend who lives in Los Angeles and wagers major dollars. He opened up an on-line account and now bets primarily from home due to the poor simulcast choices. Last year he told me (and I absolutely believe him) that his yearly wagers totalled over a quarter million dollars. I would think the California tracks would want him and others like him at their facility rather than betting at home. Any chance Northfield can do something to better tap the lucrative California market? Ig Batavia's super pools have tripled with the 10 cent super, they are in the minority. Most tracks with dime supers have seen a drop in pools as the result of big players staying on the sideline-- they like the idea of being able to take down a whole pool ,which pretty much disappears with a dime super. It may be that Batavia's pools were so small to begin with that the dime super did increase. We did look at it and talked to sevearl of our patrons. Our medium to large players were dead set against it, while the small players were slightly in favor. The additional traffic to the windows causes players to get shut out as well, which is the other reason that over a third of the tracks that introduced ten cent supers have eliminated them. As to California, they have archaic simulcast laws that prevent any kind of regular coverage. I will over-simplify here, but basically each track gets one out of state simulcast race per live race they run. Not one card; not one track, but one race! and that makes it available throughout the state. Generally, t-bred tracks take t-breds and harness track (singular) takes harness. This means that there are about 11-12 out of state races available per night. Tracks can "bank" or save races so as to take, for instance, the entire Little Brown Jug card, or the Meadowlands Hambletonian card. Basically, after Chicago and M1, we get the most coverage of anyone out there, but until their law (designed to protetct live racing, supposedly) changes, there will not be much more access to Northfield.
|
|
|
Post by thanksforthecash on Aug 14, 2007 10:53:19 GMT -5
Ig Batavia's super pools have tripled with the 10 cent super, they are in the minority. Most tracks with dime supers have seen a drop in pools as the result of big players staying on the sideline-- they like the idea of being able to take down a whole pool ,which pretty much disappears with a dime super. It may be that Batavia's pools were so small to begin with that the dime super did increase. We did look at it and talked to sevearl of our patrons. Our medium to large players were dead set against it, while the small players were slightly in favor. The additional traffic to the windows causes players to get shut out as well, which is the other reason that over a third of the tracks that introduced ten cent supers have eliminated them. Good to hear, Keith. Dime supers? We don't want no stinking dime supers.
|
|
|
Post by jimhorseman on Aug 14, 2007 19:11:33 GMT -5
Keith:
Thanks for the responses/explanations. You were right about Batavia. A friend of mine contacted the program director who he has known for years and was told the super pool has gone from an average of less than one thousand to almost three thousand with the addition of the dime super there. Not much to play for. I too am one of those guys who has dreams of taking down the whole pool and while probably not in the large better class am willing to put a good chunk in to try and get it. I probably would pass Northfield supers if they were a dime. If anyone has ever been to Batavia you could see why the ten cent super would be so popular. I was there this past week and it is embarrassing the way it is run. I was so disgusted by the end of the evening I vowed not to return. This weekend I'm going to fight through a Buffalo Bills Preaseason traffic crawl (the stadium is just up the road from Buffalo Raceway) and pay through the nose for parking and admission (Buffalo Raceway is hosting the local county fair this week) instead of driving to Batavia.
California rules are stunning in this day. One out of state race per live race? No wonder the on line sites are so popular there. With the Meadowlands closed I'm hoping to at least see a few Northfield races from the Left Coast.
|
|
|
Post by thegiss on Aug 15, 2007 10:18:34 GMT -5
Another thought is that the ten-cent super may be a way of trying to grab some slot players
|
|
|
Post by moondog33 on Aug 15, 2007 11:32:45 GMT -5
I like 10 cent supers and have hit over $1,000 on them. Scioto downs have them and their supers still pay well. I don't think it would affect anything other then the low betters having a better chance to hit a Super. You still would have good payoffs except their would be more winners when the Drivers, Trainers, Owners etc are playing games so they can rob the Super Pool!
|
|
|
Post by jimhorseman on Dec 8, 2007 19:43:13 GMT -5
Came back to this thread instead of starting a new one because it was brought up by some guy back in August that Northfield might consider other wagers like a ten cent superfecta to increase handle. Fast forward to December and there I am at my local simulcast facility lighting money on fire....errr.....wagering on Northfield when I see the announcement that beginning in January there will both be a ten cent superfecta wager and fifty cent pick five wager available.
Keith, you laid out the reasons for the against case back in summer. Why the change? As I stated back then I'm not a fan of the ten cent super at harness tracks as I don't think the pool is big enough. I do play it on those rare days when I'm wagering on the T-Breds and have often seen ten cent wagers that need to be signed for. Will the fifty cent pick five have a carryover pool? If so I think it can be a popular wager though it will be a little like the state run lotto games. Many people will only jump in when the prize or pool hits a certain level. If so I hope the fifty cent wager will be available where I wager.
|
|
|
Post by thegiss on Dec 8, 2007 21:27:39 GMT -5
Came back to this thread instead of starting a new one because it was brought up by some guy back in August that Northfield might consider other wagers like a ten cent superfecta to increase handle. Fast forward to December and there I am at my local simulcast facility lighting money on fire....errr.....wagering on Northfield when I see the announcement that beginning in January there will both be a ten cent superfecta wager and fifty cent pick five wager available. Keith, you laid out the reasons for the against case back in summer. Why the change? As I stated back then I'm not a fan of the ten cent super at harness tracks as I don't think the pool is big enough. I do play it on those rare days when I'm wagering on the T-Breds and have often seen ten cent wagers that need to be signed for. Will the fifty cent pick five have a carryover pool? If so I think it can be a popular wager though it will be a little like the state run lotto games. Many people will only jump in when the prize or pool hits a certain level. If so I hope the fifty cent wager will be available where I wager. There will be carryover on the Pick-five, similar to the pick four (25% in a consolation pool, with 75% carried over). I think the numbers will be such that the big syndicates wil l not bother, making it a playable wager when the carryover builds. As to the 10 cent supers, I was outvoted. The fact is that our product is stagnant, as are our pools and wageringm and we need to trty something. I am not convinverd it will work, frankly, but we will give it a shot and see what happens.
|
|
|
Post by the believer on Dec 10, 2007 19:27:32 GMT -5
Keith , Flamboro has only 20 cent supers ,also i think on U.S. TRACKS Canadians can only wager $1 min bets on supers even if a 10CENT super IS AVAILABLE .
|
|