Handle

[tautog]

My friend and I were at Yonkers last night and we were discussing the handle between NF and Yonkers. I said there is no way that NF is higher but once again I was proven wrong.

Giss said the handle was stagnant so I'm just wondering if most of the money comes from simulcasting? At Yonkers everyone is playing the slots there are very few horseplayer's around. It just seems to me the odds at NF jump much more than at Yonkers or Meadowlands. Last night I bet a horse at 80-1 (I didn't think he would stay there lol) and he wound up going off 5-1 and still lost adding to my losing streak at NF.

How many people are there on a weekday night compared to the weekend? Yonkers has a huge dining area by the track and yesterday maybe ten tables were taken. On a Saturday night it's over 85% full.

Once again last night NF and Meadowlands were the two main tracks bet at the bar with great interest in the carryover pick 4.

Do any or you guys or gals play our tracks in the NE?

[trackrat]

Tautog, in the past year I have generally gone to Northfield on weekdays, staying away from Saturdays, so my observations only concern MTW and Friday. I generally arrive at the track at about 6:30PM, a half hour before post time. On Mondays through Wednesdays, there can't be more than a couple hundred cars in the parking lot, if that many. On Fridays, there MIGHT be a thousand, depending upon whether there are any special events or races taking place. As I understand it, Northfield counts their attendance records from when they open the place for simulcasting, so it's possible hundreds of night shift workers gamble there and leave before I arrive. But, I will tell you this, there has been a huge change since I started going to Northfield in the early 70s. Back then, the place was packed on a Friday and Saturday. Now, it's dead, relatively speaking.

From my perspective as a fan, it seems that Northfield has abandoned the interests of the regular fan and his family and has concentrated on attracting and catering to the gamblers. The concession stand prices are too high for family entertainment ($2.50 for a regular hot dog that should be selling for $1.50 and the track would still make a $1.00 profit on each hot dog; $4.25 for a beer, when I can get a six pack at home for $6.00 and watch the races on my computer for free).

On the plus side, you NEVER have to worry about getting shut out at the window since the race goes off five minutes later than posted except on the nights when they want to speed it up so they don't have to pay an extra half hour to their employees (MTW). You never have to worry about getting a parking space. Even with all these negatives, it's still not a bad place to come for an evening out. The food in the clubhouse is good, even the snack bar food is good, just over priced. The employees are nice. It is safe, even for women who come to the track unattended. If I did not have the previous experience of patronizing Northfield in the 70s, 80s and 90s and was a new patron, I might think Northfield was THE place to be. But then, I also think the 1959 Cleveland Indians were the best that ever put on cleats. It's all relative.

[jay44224]

Tautog

Being a person that was born and raised in Jersey - I still follow the Meadowlands, Monticello as it was a big part of my youth and Yonkers. I still get to the Meadowlands a few times a year when I am visiting family. It is a little disappointing as it is not facility it once was.

Yonkers has become more of a focus for me as a friend of mine is driving there this winter and I like to keep up on how he is doing. I have enjoyed the racing there as it has become very competitive and not stale as it once was.

[tautog]

Jay

Maybe we can hook up one night the next time you are in Jersey? Yonkers bar area is nice and they will let you drink coffee or soda there as it's not crowded weekdays. You can watch me abuse the bartender (in fun) he is pretty brutal but improving. I'm sure you can tell the regulars (some scream watch out lol) NF stories and discuss Grismore who has a nice following there.

I'm still perplexed about the huge drop in odds as that doesn't happen at most tracks. Norville doesn't have drops like that and it's smaller. Dover has huge swings at the end usually with the first 3 choices but the purses are really big there even compared to Yonkers.

Even though I'm cold at NF the past 3 days I like the cheap races as sooner or later a horse will come in at a big price for me.

[trackrat]

Tautog, every now and then when I am at Northfield, I will see the odds board open up with someone bettting a couple of hundred right away on some horse, making that horse a 1-5 favorite or better, only to look back five minutes later to see that the couple hundred had been removed. I don't know if the initial wager was to influence the betting public to jump on that horse as the artificial favorite or what, but I see it often enough to think it's not just a mistaken bet.

[jay44224]

Tautog, sounds like a plan - there may be a good possibility of my wife and I going out there in the early part of next year as we may be shipping one out there to race for a couple of months.

As far as the odds changing i have had an opinion on that for a long time and there may be absolutely no validity to it. As trackrat has said sometimes early in the wagering you may see a couple of hundred put on a horse only to see it removed. I myself have been guilty of that. Rushing up to make a wager right before post at another track I punch the numbers in a self serve machine print the ticket as the race starts and find out I forgot to change from the home track. I usually go to a window and exchange the ticket and cancel the wrong bet. I am sure there are other people who have done the same thing.

I have done that at another track and they refused to change my wager at the self serve machine - I no longer travel the 3 plus hours to that Buffalo track. Not consumer friendly.

as far as late minute odd changes - most of the money bet on Northfield are simulcast dollars and it would not surprise me if 80% of the money bet in a race is done in the last minute to minute and a half. if the win pool has 15,000 total at close it probably had a total less than 2 thousand when the horse make their final score. that leads me to believe (again just my belief)
the plunkers wait till they are going to the gate to make the wagers.

Thats why I pay attention to other things as the exacta payoffs and will pays on multi race wagers. For example if a horse is the 2nd or third lowest payoff in the pk3 final leg and 30 to one with a minute to post you can be certain it will catch money late

[tautog]

I look at the same things in the exactas in fact I wound up hitting 2 favorites at Chester just doing that. Bet them with 3 minutes left they were both above 5/2. One went off even money and the other 3/2. The exactas told the story I just missed a 32-1 shot at Freehold to place looking at that angle. I'm not smart enough to handicap a race so I look for driver changes, racing back 5 days or less (one of my favorites), being parked out, bet the last time, and a few other things.

I guess out in NF it's different but here there is no way you can cancel your bet and I know the teller. But I find it hard to fathom that a $400 bettor is making a mistake, it would have to be a sucker line to get people to jump in. The thing is that if a horse is a lock I'm sure the connections can make a bet without affecting the pool if you get the drift.

Off the subject a little bit I can't believe a horse who didn't win a race this year won the 12th race and a few people at the bar had them at Yonkers. I had the horse who finished 2nd, dumb me only bet him to win. But that's what I like about NF, most horses don't repeat.

[jay44224]

No way to cancel a bet - then people wonder why the on track handle is suffering. You can bet at many internet sites and cancel your bet and not spend the money on gas or anything else.

Way back when before modern tote systems I could see that policy. But today with the computer systems and such how can somebody justify not changing a wager. 99.999% of the time the money will be wagered anyway.

Trust me people make mistakes to say it never happens is ignoring your customers are human.

When I was younger service stations had service . how many people would give a gas station more business if they still had someone pump your gas and check oil and tire pressure. Jersey excluded as they are required by law to pump your gas. Same with any business service- especially service that does not subtract from the bottom line is key.

When I was in the sales and marketing end I always went by the rule it was easier to keep a customer than to develop a new one. And how do you keep that customer treat them with respect - if you see they are a regular - say hi introduce yourself and get to know them and always thank them for their business. If I visited Yonkers and made a wager and came back and wanted to change it and they refused - that would be fine no big stink - it would be the first and last time. There are other places that would be happy to accept my hard earned wagering money.

Customers may always complain about something- and there are things that can't be done without a cost - but if it can and you blow it off as policy then don't be surprised that you lose that customer.

[tautog]

You can only cancel a bet if it's a tellers mistake and you haven't left the window. Many internet sites won't take bets the last 2 minutes this much I know. A majority won't take action on Yonkers if it doesn't go into the pool. I have no idea about NF, I have a legit NJ OTB account that lets we watch any race past or present which is a big help. TVG will not let you cancel a bet it's in their FAQ.

Quick story about Yonkers about serving the customer. We went on a rare Saturday night it was jammed. I asked the manger if I could sit at a table near the bar. She went ballistic and said there was a party there and she would sit me wherever she wants. I know her a long time. Needless to say I would never eat there when she is manging the last time we ate in a different area of the track. My friend always busts me and says "there's your friend Lisa". But there is no way she will get the satisfaction from me because of her attitude.

[jay44224]

It is amazing - you have to wonder how many people get similar treatment and just do not come back. I bet no ever asks you why you do not eat there anymore

As far as internet accounts I use betharness and youbet - 95% of my wagers are through youbet and I can cancel those - I believe I can with betharness but I only use that sight once in a while as a majority of what I wager is not handle by them.

[tautog]

In NJ you can only use their OTB everything else is illegal. It's a shame because some sites give you $75 if you wager $75 not that it would be a determining factor in opening an account. Service is always #1. But they have opened a beautiful OTB parlor with your own seats and tv (250) with a nice restaurant and bar about 10 miles from me. The only drawback is that too many people scream, I just watch the race win or lose the horses don't hear me anyway lol. It's a nice diversion once in a while because the races are in HDTV not like TVG.